Identity can be a huge source of strength and comfort for people, but it can also be a source of confusion and pain, especially if you’re biracial or an immigrant. Even if you don’t fall into either one of these categories, the truth is we all have different forms of competing socialization we’re navigating in our everyday, and I’m talking to two of my ACFC students about this topic today.

Ana Lopez is a sexual liberation coach, Clutch coach, and host of the podcast, Sex in Spanglish. Cris Berlingeri is an Advanced Certified weight loss coach who is also a physician, theologian, and bakery owner, and I’ve invited them on the show this week to dive into the complexities of dual socialization, and how they’ve charted a middle course that combines their traditions with their preferences. 

Join us on the podcast as Ana and Cris offer their experiences of dual socialization as Latina women living in the US, and how they see this concept coming up for their clients. They’re walking us through how they’ve used thought work to choose a path that combines their different cultural socializations, and the conflicting messages they’ve navigated around assimilation. 

If you’re a coach or thinking about becoming a coach and listening to this podcast has made you realize that you don’t want to be coaching inside that white box, the waitlist for the next round of the Advanced Certification in Feminist Coaching is now open. To get on the waitlist, text your email to +1347 997 1784 and use the codeword ACFC when you’re prompted. Or you can go to

What You’ll Learn From This Episode:

  • How Ana and Cris define dual socialization and see it coming up in their niches. 
  • Cris and Ana’s experience of dual socialization as Latina women living in the US.
  • How they navigate introducing coaching tools in their work, and how their clients handle the assimilation.
  • The conflicting messages Ana and Cris have experienced around assimilation, and how they balance their traditions with their preferences. 
  • Why thought work can be so powerful in choosing a path that combines different cultural socialization.
  • The beauty of dual socialization.
  • How going through ACFC has transformed how they think about dual socialization and their cultural norms.
  • Why you don’t have to reconcile your experience of dual socialization. 

Listen to the Full Episode:

Featured on the Show:

Full Episode Transcript:

Welcome to Unf*ck Your Brain, the only podcast that teaches you how to use psychology, feminism, and coaching, to rewire your brain and get what you want in life. And now here’s your host, Harvard Law School grad, feminist rockstar, and master coach, Kara Loewentheil.

Hello my chickens. So, I am going to bet that a lot of you who are listening are going to identify with what we’re talking about this week. And for some of you it may be very obvious and for some of you it may be a little more subtle. But we are going to be talking about dual socialization with two of my students, Ana and Cris who will introduce themselves in a minute. They’ve both gone through my Advanced Certification in Feminist Coaching and Ana actually works for me now as well.

We’re going to talk about dual socialization particularly from their perspective as being Latina women who live in the US. But I think a lot of us, even if we aren’t biracial or aren’t immigrants, have different forms of competing socialization. I mean I certainly think some of my socialization as a Jewish person is different than the socialization I got as a woman in kind of dominant American culture.

So, if you’re a minority religion or you, you know, I think you can relate to and get a lot out of this episode even if you are not biracial or not an immigrant or don’t have kind of a more obvious dual socialization. Alright, so that’s my spiel about why everybody should listen and also just because these ladies are brilliant and they’re going to talk about interesting brain things and that’s why we’re here. So, tell us a little bit, why don’t we just go alphabetically, Ana first then Cris about kind of who you coach and also how you come to or what you bring to this topic in particular.

Ana: Yeah. So, my name is ana Lopez. Many of you chickens might know me as your Clutch coach. So that’s super exciting, hi. I am also a sex coach so I work with predominantly Latina women, mostly first gen about sex and of course everything relates to sex. So that could be confidence, body image, all the things and I make my work very culturally relevant. So, this is kind of my jam.

Cris: Hi. I’m Cris Berlingeri. I was born and raised in Puerto Rico and I’ve been living in the United States for about 14 years. I’m a physician, theologian, bakery owner.

Kara: Can we just pause on physician, theologian, bakery owner because I just don’t know if I’ve ever – I’ve had a lot of people with dual careers on here before but I don’t know if I’ve had, and also coach, so physician, theologian, bakery owner, certified feminist coach, that is a four way actually.

Ana: [Crosstalk], Kara.

Cris: [Crosstalk].

Ana: You’re like the posterchild for multi passionate, right?

Cris: Yeah, or buffering. Buffering with degrees.

Kara: That is a thing but stop disclaiming your accomplishments, please. No, we don’t do that on the podcast.

Cris: Okay. So, I’m Cris Berlingeri. I was born and raised in Puerto Rico and I’ve been living in the United States for about 14 years now. And I’m just passionate about just helping Hispanic women, particularly first generation, to create the relationship they want with food, their bodies, their families and themselves.

Kara: Love it. And you both use the term ‘first generation’ but I actually think people who are not an immigrant family might not even know, might find that confusing as a person who came versus the first generation born here, so can you define that for everybody?

Ana: Yeah. So, my parents were born in Mexico, well, actually half, so I’m biracial. So, my father was born in Mexico and was brought here and then had children here in the United States. I was raised by an immigrant or immigrant family and I was raised here in the United States.

Kara: There we go, that’s today’s terminology, definition, yeah, Cris.

Cris: In my case, so I was born and raised in Puerto Rico. So, my kids would be first generation but in Puerto Rico it’s an American territory, so we are raised with a lot of anglicism which is like Americanized version of our Spanish language and culture. So, it’s interesting, I shall say because when I try to form friendships and be in community here, it’s kind of like I don’t fit into the people who migrated here from Hispanic countries. But I also can relate a lot with first generation, but I think because of the way I was raised in Puerto Rico it’s more likelihood to first generation.

Kara: Yeah, that makes sense. So, let’s talk about this. I mean you guys had a couple of different areas you sort of felt like would be good places to highlight how dual socialization can impact you. I think it would be interesting, Ana, if we just started with kind of your niche, you work with sex. That relates to so many different things. But how do you see dual socialization coming up for mostly first generation Latinas in this country around sex?

Actually, we should define dual socialization. I know that just seems obvious but we should probably backup. How do you guys define dual socialization?

Ana: Yeah. So, in my mind, dual socialization is we are raised, so obviously we have all been socialized regardless of identity in whatever area. So, we are socialized and those of us in the United States are being socialized by American culture, by the patriarchy, all the things. And then we get very different messaging at home. So, this can be for anyone that’s from a different, a minority population. So, in my work with my clients, it’s very traditional Latino household. So, our values and what we kind of teach our children are very different than that of what we learn in the United States.

Kara: Can you give us an example that you feel like illustrates that for folks?

Ana: Yeah. So, well, going back to your question about sex. Yeah, definitely. So, we don’t talk about sex typically in Latino households. And I just want to preface this by saying this podcast is probably going to be full of generalizations, so stick with it, just listen for the message.

Kara: I just watched, do you guys follow Caitlin Reilly, is that her?

Ana: Yeah.

Kara: Yeah, okay. She did this imitation of a TikTok tarot card reader which I posted to my stories. But in it she’s constantly saying, “Take what fits. Take what fits. Don’t force it if it doesn’t fit. I am just the messenger. Take what fits.” So, I think that should be for every podcast, just take what fits, if it doesn’t fit, that’s okay then it’s not for you.

Ana: Right. So yeah, so again, take what fits. So, we don’t, typically don’t talk about sex in Latino households. So, this sex, the act of sex, things go here and all those things, preparation, pleasure, all those things. But also, about our bodies, the function of our bodies, things like that. The way in that it’s not talked about it becomes interpreted or internalized as very shameful and guilt-full behavior especially because our culture is highly rooted in Catholicism even if we don’t necessarily – I’m not Catholic. I wasn’t raised Catholic.

But still those messages still got kind of passed on, my parents aren’t Catholic. So, it’s very deeply rooted in our culture. And so, we kind of get those message. And I know that in the United States, there’s also a lot of anti sex rhetoric and messages that individuals receive. But I think that it’s even more so in the Latino culture. I see it almost like it’s highlighted even more. It’s like clutch my pearls moment, if you even say the word ‘tampon’. I went to Mexico.

Okay, so I started my period when I went to Mexico and I was prepared. I knew this was going to happen. But I brought tampons and I ran out. So, I went to the store and I found a store after two hours, I found a store that was selling them. This little old man, he was probably in his 70s, selling items, you could tell they were from the US. So, they were probably like gas station items because it was a small little box of tampons. And I was like, “Can I have these? I want to purchase these.” And he was so embarrassed. And I was like, “You’re selling them.”

Kara: Who did he think was going to buy them where he wouldn’t be embarrassed?

Ana: Right, a farmer or I don’t know. This is why I teach what I teach because this should not be this huge thing. It’s a basic necessity. So yeah, that’s just an example.

Cris: What about you, Cris?

Cris: Yeah. So, I wanted to add that I’m going to admit that it wasn’t until I went through ACFC that I dropped the shame about buying tampons myself. So, I sensed it and I wasn’t aware of it until I went through the class. And I’m like, “Oh my goodness.” And yes to the point that it’s interesting that we don’t talk much about these things. But I don’t know if that happened with you, Ana. But in Puerto Rico whenever a girl has her first menstrual period it’s announced to the family, like the rooster saying.

And they just share that information which is so – I don’t know – to me it’s like an irony, we don’t talk about those things. But when we have our first menstrual period we have to announce it to everybody.

Ana: Yeah. I don’t have that experience but I’m definitely sure that some people listening have, so I wouldn’t be surprised.

Kara: Cris, I’d love to hear from your perspective, what’s the place that you see dual socialization kind of showing up with very different messages, whether that’s sort of like how things are in the US, how things are in Puerto Rico, or your family, or your culture, or your religion. But what is the place you see that happening?

Cris: So yes, I want to share a little bit of what Ana said. I remember, she was talking about I had friends home, I was probably a teenager. And we were unloading the dryer from the laundry. And so, underwear was on top of the clothes basket. And my dad freaked out. He was like, “That’s so intimate. How dare you cross the living room with a basket with underwear?” So, I think it’s one of those things. And I don’t know if you want to include this.

But I focus on women’s relationship with food, and with their bodies, and I grew up so confused because we are expected to look a certain way. I remember I just had delivered my first baby and my parents were home. My dad grabbed my belly, I was not yet a month postpartum and he told me, “I see you’re working on your second baby.” So, it’s kind of normal in a way for particularly the men in the family to comment on our bodies. But at the same time, it’s seen very disrespectful if you don’t eat or have seconds of what they serve you.

So, it’s the shaming for our bodies and then the shaming for our eating behavior. So, it’s kind of like we’re always under the radar. So, growing up I was just very confused about what was expected or what was I supposed to do. I need to look a certain way but the behavior expected from me from eating did not align with that.

Kara: Yeah. And I think the dominant US culture, the socialization around eating for women is don’t eat, always eat less. And then so if you’re going back and forth and Jewish culture is like that too. And the same thing, my grandmother would be wanting you to eat seconds. So, if you’d go to a restaurant she’d be like, “Order whatever you want. Are you hungry? Do you want more? Should I send you home with food?” Then she’d also be concerned about your weight. So, it’s that kind of conflict.

I think it just shows her socialization and then her cultural. There’s the cultural background of being Jewish, and being immigrants, and depending on what kind of Jewish family you descended from. Potentially having food and security in your past, living on a farm or in a peasant village, not having enough food, that always being a concern.

And then being an American and being socialized that being thin is the most important thing for a woman. And then just the total cognitive dissonance of being like, “You need to lose some weight, here’s some snacks, eat them now.” And you’re just like, “What the fuck, what am I supposed to do here?”

Ana: And also, when you do start to lose weight they’re like, “You’re getting really skinny, here, here’s some food.”

Kara: You look so good, you’re too skinny. And you’re just like, “What do you want from me?” But yeah, and I think especially in Jewish, it’s so confusing, a Jewish family’s also like food is love. That’s how in some Jewish families, at least mine. It’s like that’s how you are expressing your love is cooking and feeding your family. So, you’re like, “Okay, so you want me to eat less, and I’m supposed to be skinny. But if I don’t eat I’m personally rejecting your love.” And so yeah, there’s some conflicting messages.

So, I’m curious how you navigate assimilation and the model, which is one of the things that you guys thought would be useful to share. So, I would definitely love to hear that. What are your thoughts about, how does it impact you? When we say the model, we’re saying the coaching model basically. And I think we can make that even a little more general, not everybody on the call necessarily uses or knows the model that we teach in the Clutch, but how you navigate kind of assimilation and coaching.

How does that come up and how do you think coaching tools help people handle assimilation?

Ana: Yeah. I think prior to ACFC I was just like, “There is this one way to do it. And you can only do it this way.” But what I noticed after the fact was that it was kind of me assuming their experience because there’s a lot of stereotypes typically that I use in my coaching. And they can see my generalizations. But the vast majority of my clients have similar experiences to mine. So, I think it starts out with just getting really specific, like what was your experience, just diving into that even if we don’t necessarily do any coaching.

Just really taking them back, what was this like for you? So, for example, I had a client that wanted to work on boundaries with her parents. And so, I was like, “Okay, what was it like growing up with them? Why do you want to set the boundaries?” And just getting really curious about where is this thought pattern coming from? And it almost seemed like no coaching was taking place because I was just asking all the background to get to if we were going to use the model, get to a very specific C and have her understand why she’s thinking what she’s thinking to begin with.

What is the reason behind this boundary? Because what she thought it was, was not necessarily even close. And sometimes people aren’t even ready to create necessarily an intentional model. They’re just kind of like, I want to sit with my thought download of all these things and my experiences and all that. And we’re just going to sit there for a second and then I’ll come back when I’ve kind of digested this thought model.

Kara: I feel like family’s such a good example because the socialization on family in the US is sort of like, you get to be a teen and then you leave home and then you are like your own new person. And your parents shouldn’t be that involved in your life and it’s important to be independent. We have a very different model than a lot of immigrant cultures, certainly Jewish culture is not like that.

And I think listening to my friends who come from more indistinct US generally Christian backgrounds, just sort of like whatever, the differences in attitude. I once dated somebody who had gotten – not that this is the goal, but who had gotten estranged from his family and he was a white Christian midwestern guy. And I was just sort of like, “How do you get estranged from a family?” My family would – I don’t think you can get estranged from Jewish parents. I think they would just show up on your door. And if you’d left, they’d hire a private investigator.

I mean that’s just not even a concept in my mind that that would be possible. So, I’m curious, yeah, Cris, if you have thoughts about that.

Cris: For sure. I am convinced there is a common denominator between Jewish families and Hispanic families. Because definitely in my experience, you start the theme of leaving the home and how involved your parents should be. From my personal experience that was a big issue for me, that coaching and the model helped me with the people pleasing part of it. So, my parents would come home with a one way ticket.

And by the eighth week I would be like eighth week, “When are you thinking of going back?” And my dad would get very defensive. “You don’t want us here?” I’m like, “What do you mean?”

Kara: Do you live here now or what’s happening?

Cris: So, I had to establish that boundary, I think it was very gracious, I gave them four weeks which it’s funny. When I talk with my American friends they’re like, “Four weeks?” My brother, he’s married to an American person, lady and she has a limit of four days. So, it’s just that culture shock of what the expectation is. And then once you settle the boundary, my parents stopped talking to me for a while. But now I see the fruits of it. We enjoy each other more.

I was kind of trying to let them be there for however long but I was not showing up the way that I wanted to. I was resentful, disengaged, always with a long face. And now we enjoy each other more and even my kids enjoy their grandparents more because they’re grandparents, because they are not like there in their face. And also, that’s another thing, they wanted to parent and correct my children. And I would tell my mom, “Mom, just be a grandma. Just be a grandma. I’m the mom, let me be the backup, you enjoy being a grandma.”

Kara: What I love about that story is that I think part of the lie that people experience in feeling conflict between different cultural socializations is they have to pick one, one is the right one and which one am I supposed to be? But your story, so that story is so beautiful because you’re like, actually I get to make my own version. I get to combine these things. I don’t have to turn into four days, that’s what Americans do or indefinite because that’s what my parents from Puerto Rico want to do.

You get to set your own. I think that’s where thought work can be so powerful, to see, okay, well, my parents clearly have this set of thoughts. And my sister-in-law has this set of thoughts. What are my thoughts and preferences, seeing where all that comes from and how it all is. I mean one of the beauties of dual socialization is it can actually help you see how subjective all the thoughts are because you’re like, “Well, I’m getting two totally contradictory sets of thoughts here.” So obviously there isn’t an objective true one.

And I get to decide how I want to tread that middle path. Have you got any thoughts about that, Ana?

Ana: Yeah. I’m just thinking about going back to assimilation. And how this common saying of, only white people do that, or that’s something that white people do. And typically, the thing that they’re doing supposedly is this more moral thing, going to therapy and things like that. And it’s this very common saying I think amongst many non-white communities. And it’s almost like putting white people on a pedestal and I don’t know. I think there needs to be, one, that’s not something that only white people do.

And I think that it for many people, it feels like they’re abandoning their culture by doing something that isn’t necessarily common in our culture. And so, if I’m talking about Latinos for example, therapy isn’t really common, we don’t talk about mental health. And that’s just one example. So, if we go to therapy it’s like, that’s something that white people do. And we’re also seen as being more assimilated so then we’re leaving our culture behind which means then we’re leaving our family behind.

It’s this whole catastrophizing by our entire family because we decided to go to therapy. And I think one of the most beautiful things about our culture is that we have a lot of traditions, cultural traditions and things like that. But not going to therapy is not a cultural tradition.

Kara: And it’s only been around for [crosstalk] years so this can’t be a longstanding tradition.

Ana: Right. I think there is a disconnect between what an actual cultural tradition is and something that we only have seen white people do. And just because it’s new to us, new to our culture, whatever that may be, doesn’t mean it’s only for white people and doesn’t mean we have to give up our Latin identity just to go to therapy or whatever it is.

Cris: I would like to add to that. I don’t know if in other Hispanic cultures it’s prevalent but in Puerto Rico, you grow up with this kind of like underlying thought and belief. And they actually talk to you that you have to improve the race. And what they mean by that is marry whiter than you. Puerto Rico as a culture is a combination of Latin Americans, the Black people who came from Africa to work the fields and then the Spaniards, so European. So, there is always this belief to marry whiter.

And then when we come to the United States it’s that dichotomy, I have cousins that my uncles wouldn’t let them learn Spanish because they wanted to be whiter. They didn’t want them to have an accent. But then at the same time it’s like what Ana is saying, they’re like, “You’re betraying your culture.” So, it’s kind of like again like with the food is this conflicting messaging, we have to be whiter but at the same time without letting go of who we are as a culture. So, it’s kind of like you need to balance that out with the model and with coaching.

Just kind of think for yourself, what do I want? And I’m seeing that with raising my kids. They are first generation. And I will not lie to you, I had to get coached three times on my kids not talking Spanish. And now my daughter is having a southern accent, which I was not expecting. So, it really, it affected me more than I thought it would, because I want them to speak Spanish but it is what it is. So, it’s just interesting to navigate all those things.

Kara: Yeah, that’s so funny, my daughter has a southern accent, what’s happening?

Ana: Now what culture does she belong to?

Kara: Yeah, I mean I think that’s such a good point, the conflicting messages around assimilation. And I think also obviously those can vary not only by culture but even in cultures. So, there’s certainly Jewish communities that are sort of trying to prevent assimilation.  And then there’s people whose families changed their name when they got here to seem less Jewish. And then there’s people whose families did that and now who are like, “Well, I kind of want to go back to my old family name. Or I want to undo some of that, those effects of assimilation.”

But of course, that’s partly because antisemitism has become a little less vocally mainstream and Jews are more white passing. And so now it’s ‘safer’. Feels a little more space to go back to more of those markers. So, it’s like something that changes as people culturally adapt, as people assimilate. And as the culture changes its definition of whose white which is all made up anyway. There’s more or less space to express cultural identity in ways that are going to be seen as detracting from whiteness or detracting from your white proximity or as kind of allowable within that.

Cris: I have a partner in my bakery business and I really didn’t want to include this. But my baking business partner she emigrated from Venezuela five years ago. And she calls me the Gringa, or the two of us, the Gringa partner and I don’t like that.

Kara: We need to coach you. Have you told her that you don’t like being called that?

Cris: I really don’t. I have been passive aggressive about it. And I’m like, “I’m Hispanic too.” But because [inaudible], so she refers to me like, yeah, she refers to me like that.

Kara: I think that changes over your life too. I think that when I was younger I felt much more – I felt less – I actually had more religious observance but felt less Jewish identity. And then as I get older I see more of that, that identity has become stronger to me. Whereas for some people maybe it lessens as they go out in the world and they assimilate more to their surroundings. So, I think that it’s like you have a whole relationship with your different kind of communities. And that can evolve in such different ways.

So, I’m curious to kind of hear from you both. How did you find as you went through the Advanced Certification in Feminist Coaching, what did you sort of pull out of it that you think has kind of helped you think about this? So that those people who are listening who experience dual socialization can kind of learn from that and apply it themselves too.

Ana: Yeah. All this shit is made up. I already knew that.

Kara: [Crosstalk 24:51] every podcast, it’s all made up guys. Have a good day.

Ana: You’ve been my coach for I don’t know how many years now. I already knew this but now I’ve internalized it, it’s actually like it’s all fucking made up. There are seven million messages from everywhere. And the kind of the analogy that I’ve been using with my clients and even with the Clutch chickens so you’ve probably heard me say this if you’re listening. Is if someone came into your house and left a pair of shoes, and they were two sizes too small and you’re like, “Well, got to wear them, I can’t throw them away. I can’t sell them. I can’t donate them. Just got to wear them.”

So, you’re walking around all cramped up, that is the same concept as using these thoughts that were just gifted to you or injected into your mind as a child when you didn’t know any better. And now you know that those are not even your opinions. Those are not your own thoughts, they are someone else’s. And you continue practicing them even though you know that they’re not yours. And I’m like, that is so freeing because they’re not even mine. And I love to throw away trash, my mother is a hoarder so that is my favorite thing in the world.

So, if I could  just give away all these trash thoughts I will be the happiest person on the Earth, but gladly.

Cris: That is so good.

Kara: Marie Kondo your brain, what are you doing with this. People are like, “I have a capsule wardrobe, but 700,000 thoughts in my brain I haven’t looked at.” You need a capsule brain wardrobe much more.

Ana: Right. So much more room for activities.

Kara: Yeah. What do you think, Cris, what about you?

Cris: Yes, I am going to jump in and start with the freedom that Ana was expressing. It’s just after ACFC it’s kind of like time has slowed down. And whenever I find myself in kind of like this moment of dichotomoy or when I feel uncomfortable or I’m confused, I just pause. And I can see where it’s coming from and then I get to examine it and just decide if I want to keep that or not, not only for myself but when I’m interacting particularly, it’s coming up a lot. As you can see I have issues with my dad, particularly with him when I have conversations with him.

I can also hold that space for him, I’m like, “This is where he’s coming from. It doesn’t mean anything about me.” And I don’t know, it’s just beautiful because it also has allowed me to be more compassionate for him, for myself, and then just choose. And not make it mean that what I choose is bad or good, or what he’s choosing is bad or good. It’s just the way we choose to live our lives.

Kara: That’s such a good point. Right before this I recorded a podcast with Danny and Lindsay Pullman about man and patriarchy. And I feel like one of the brain mistakes we make, not just in this area, in all areas, but the story about your father I think is really powerful. Is we think that somehow being resistant and mad will give us the fuel to disconnect from the person or to change our thought. It’s like if I have compassion for him I’ll be less motivated to change the thought or something. I’ve not said it in these words before.

But I feel like that’s actually a really common brain error. It’s like if I have compassion for him then somehow I can less recognize that it’s wrong, or can less recognize that I don’t want to think that way. And then it’s just so backwards. It’s actually, let’s say you have a 100 kilowatts of power to change your brain, if you’re spending 90 of them being mad at somebody else about their thoughts then you only can power your brain change with 10% energy.

If you are able to have compassion for the other person you can get that down to 20% resistance of them, now you have 80 kilowatts of energy to change your brain. That’s such a common, and I think that makes so much sense in the context of this work on dual socialization of you don’t have to, one, reconcile it, because it may be not be reconcilable, you literally are just potentially learning completely contradictory things and that’s okay. And you don’t have to as Ana was saying, accept the definition you’ve been given. What does that even mean to be a good Jew or to be a good Latino?

You could ask 10 people and get 10 different definitions. We talk about it like identity can be a source of real strength and comfort for people. And then it can also be like a blanket. We talk about it like it’s one thing but it means so many different things. And I think that approach of, yeah, I totally get why my parents were both telling me to lose weight and eat more food. They had confusing socialization also. And that’s okay, I can have compassion for that. But what’s that middle course that I want to chart?

Ana: Yeah. I think a lot of people confuse compassion with acceptance. As if it’s like a married couple, if I’m compassionate then I also have to accept it. The same idea with our concept with forgiveness. If I forgive this person, that means I’m saying the behavior is okay.

Kara: Yeah, I’m condoning it, yeah. Totally, yeah, and we actually think that it gives – I think we think it motivates us the same way as like, well, if I hate my job enough I’ll leave it. And I’m like, no, if you hate your job enough you cry a lot and watch a lot of Netflix at night and then go back to the job the next day and then you just do that again. So good.

Cris: Actually, you said that’s not the goal but I had been, had this dynamic with my dad, I just went to Puerto Rico a month ago for a wedding. The day that I departed he sent a text that I was not happy about. And I was going to lash out at him. And instead, again, I leaned into what I just explained, and I just told him, “I love you, I respect you. I’m sorry that sometimes that message doesn’t get across to you.” That’s kind of the fight word, message, in a nutshell randomly yesterday morning I wake up, I had a message from him that says in a nutshell, “I’m sorry, I want for us to have a great relationship.”

And I’m like, my dad is saying I’m sorry. It’s just again, that was not the goal or anything. We hadn’t talked about it at all. But it’s like we’re saying, I just felt compassion for him. I stopped with my boundaries by holding compassion and then I’m like, it really does take one person to change, for the relationship to change.

Kara: And this is so fascinating because I’m now spending a lot of time thinking about child psychology and child development as I am now with somebody who had children, I’m interacting with them. And everything, all the positive parenting psychology tells you is that, everybody comes in being like, “I need to know how to have consequences, to change behavior.” Just like people come in and being like, “I need boundaries to change my parents. I need consequences to change my kids.”

And what they teach you in the child rearing context is it’s actually all about connection, you have to establish connection and then you are able to persuade basically. And that trying to start with consequences is like trying to start with coercive punishment. If you haven’t built the connection it doesn’t work. And what you’re describing is kind of the same thing. It’s rather than the fight and the resist, it’s just like I’m just going to be the first person to offer compassion in this situation.

And maybe sometimes it is going to come back to you, sometimes not, but either way you’ve then done that. That’s not really about dual socialization but I just think it could be useful. Now I want to do a whole podcast about how we can use positive parenting techniques on the adults in our lives. We will have a different conversation about that.

Thank you guys so much for coming on. Tell people where they can find more about you.

Ana: Yeah. So, you can find me in the Clutch so if you’ve been thinking about joining.

Kara: Join the Clutch.

Ana: Great way to join.

Kara: Or if you want one-to-one coaching, Ana does one-to-one coaching in the Clutch also, [crosstalk] anything else?

Ana: Yeah. So, I’m a Clutch member turned Clutch Coach, so that should say how great it is. But anyway, I also have my own business called Sex in Spanglish. You can find me anywhere, Sex in Spanglish. I mostly play on Instagram. I also have a podcast, Sex in Spanglish where we talk about sex in Spanglish.

Kara: There you go, [crosstalk].

Cris: Yeah. So, you can find me on Facebook and TikTok as Cris Berlingeri MD, Cris with a C and not an H, C-R-I-S B-E-R-L-I-N-G-E-R-I M-D.

Kara: We’ll put it in the show notes, I have this problem too when I go on other people’s podcasts. I’m like, Loewentheil, we’ll just put it in the show notes.

Cris: Okay. And then on Instagram I’m Coach Cris Berlingeri MD and then I have a podcast, it’s called The Joyful Weight Loss Podcast.

Kara: Easier to search. Okay, my friends, thank you for coming on, I’ll see you guys soon.

Cris: Thank you.

Ana: Bye bye. Thanks.

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