Hello my friends. I am so excited for you to hear this conversation. This is a conversation with two of my students who I think have accomplished what so many of us want, which is not just changing something big in their life. So, growing their business, developing self-regulation strategies, working less, being more emotionally stable while succeeding. But they also have done it with just an amazing level of emotional honesty and self-reflection and self-responsibility. And so I think that there is so much for you all to learn from them in terms of what it takes to own your success and what makes going for and achieving an impossible goal worthwhile that isn’t even about the goal itself at all.

So many of you, I know listening to this, have something big you want to do. But you are either not getting traction or you haven’t even started or you’re just not getting the results you want. Maybe you feel like you’ve hit a plateau. And so much of that is because of the way you are relating to your goal. It’s the way you’re thinking about your goal, the way you’re feeling about your goal, all of the weight you’re putting on the goal unconsciously, all of the work that you want the goal to do for you, rather than bringing an attitude of what you can do for the goal. So we dig into all of that in this interview and I really can’t wait for you all to hear it.

And if after listening or even before listening, you know that this is the kind of work you need, that there is something big you want to do in your life, that you are holding yourself back from, or that you’re trying and not getting traction on and you cannot figure out why, then I want to invite you to apply to the Mission Impossible Mastermind. So, this is my very small, high-end, very high-touch mastermind. I run it twice a year. It’s very small. There’s never more than 20 people in it. Sometimes it’s more like 12 or 15, just depending on who I want to admit from who applies, because I work with you really closely. I’m coaching you in the Slack whenever you want. We have coaching calls, we have a retreat in person. It’s just a very intimate experience with me.

So, this is an application program, but if you are hearing this and you’re thinking, “Oh, I want to apply, but I don’t know that I would get picked, and then I’m going to feel bad about myself,” this is an opportunity for you to be willing to put yourself out there a little bit and decide ahead of time what you’re going to think about yourself if for some reason it isn’t the right fit for you. But if it is the right fit for you, it is really a transformative experience. And we have a, I think 75% renewal rate. We usually only have a couple of spots open because people just renew because they want to stay. Either they set a huge goal that they knew they weren’t going to get to in six months, but they were starting on, and they want to keep going, or sometimes they hit their goal and then they want to do the next amazing, scary, intoxicating thing.

So, we have a couple of spots open with a few folks who have graduated. You can go to unfuckyourbrain.com/mim. So that’s MIM, Mission Impossible Mastermind. Depending on when you’re listening to this, you might get a link that takes you to the waitlist, in which case, put your name in, you’ll be the first to hear when we have open spots. If you are listening to this at the time that we’re accepting applications, it’ll go to the page with all the information.

So, either way, whenever you’re listening to this, if this idea calls to you when you listen to this episode, go to unfuckyourbrain.com/mim. And I will now let my previous self and Cecilie and Megan take it away for this incredible conversation.

Welcome to UnF*ck Your Brain. I’m your host, Kara Loewentheil, Master Certified Coach and founder of The School of New Feminist Thought. I’m here to help you turn down your anxiety, turn up your confidence, and create a life on your own terms, one that you’re truly excited to live. Let’s go.

Alright my friends, I am joined today by two of my favorite people, favorite clients. You’re all my favorite clients, but you two are more favorite. And I’m excited for you to hear a little bit about the ways they have used thought work in achieving big goals, because as you all know, that is something we talk about a lot on this podcast, but I think it’s really important for you to hear stories that aren’t just my story. So, I’m we want to start this off the same way we start every podcast, which is asking our guests to brag about themselves because women don’t brag about themselves enough. So Cecilie, you want to go first?

Cecilie: I’m Cecilie Nielsen. I’m an executive leadership coach and I work with senior leaders and teams all over the world in what we call high pressure, high growth industries. I’m also the host of the Leadership Confidence Podcast. Before that, I spent my corporate career in HR, private equity, working internationally for about 15 years before I set up my current business, which is called CN8.

Kara: What’s something you’d like to brag about yourself for?

Cecilie: I think starting a business from scratch and growing it to this point and then starting a podcast from scratch without knowing how to really do any of it. And getting to a point where it’s all running sort of fairly successfully and then continuing to lean in and ask for help and keep going when it’s tough is actually probably the thing that I’m the most proud of.

Kara: Yeah, I love it. Alright, Megan, what about you?

Megan: Hey, I am Megan Negendank. I have been a therapist for over 15 years and I also am the owner and founder of Love Heal Grow. We’re a relationship therapy practice in California.

Kara: Love it. And what do you want to brag about yourself for?

Megan: I think I want to brag that I am Latina. I am a first-gen college student and came from lower-income family and I have built a $3 million business.

Kara: So one of the things I love about YouTube that you have in common is that a lot of the people who come and work with me at a higher level have obviously like done other things with me. Like they’ve been in my membership or they did a smaller program. I didn’t actually realize this till we got on this call because we didn’t plan it this way, but both of you were just like, “Nope, I’ve never paid you a dollar. I’m all in, let’s go.” Which is just a fascinating mindset. So I’m curious, I’d like to hear from both of you. I met you both through my Mission Impossible Mastermind. What kind of goal were you trying to like work towards that made you think, “Oh, I want some high-level support?”

Megan: I was actually just telling my husband this that it was serendipitous that you started posting about the mastermind when you did because I was at a point in my business where I had hit a goal that had been a goal for a long time. I was going to have my first $3 million year. I had moved into my dream house. There were a lot of things in my life that had come to fruition, but inside I was feeling really scared. Like I’m going to do something and lose everything instead of enjoying that. And so I was actually looking for business coaching at the time. And I was like, if I find someone who’s in line with my values who can help me protect my business to make sure that make sure that I never mess this up and I never go back.

Kara: I love you were like, I built it to three million. Now I need a business coach because obviously I don’t know what I’m doing. So that’s what I need now.

Megan: And I had been following you on Instagram for a while and loved your feminist values, really loved your sense of humor, everything you posted. You posted the mastermind and I was like, I want to do this. And I had success in working with coaches before around mindset and stuff and I was like, “Okay, let’s do this.” So I just took a chance.

Kara: It was such a good example also of like, I actually didn’t know we were going to post on social media about it, and then like, I don’t think we were supposed to. But then my team did and I was like, “Oh, this worked out great. I met these two great people. Who knew?” So sometimes your team makes mistakes and it’s for the best. What about you, Cecilie?

Cecilie: I think I was on your email list. So I’m a Life Coach School graduate as well. That’s how I got into coaching originally many, many years ago. And so I don’t know, you’re famous, no, in those circles. And so I knew of you, but I’d never, I don’t think I’d listened to a, maybe I’d listened to one or two podcasts and somehow I’d ended up on your email list and I got this email and I’d been looking for someone to help me grow my business, which we’ll get to, for a while, and I just hadn’t found anyone that I guess was sort of impressed enough by. I wanted someone who had really came from a similar background having kind of worked in the real world and had proper coach training, but also had gone on to build something of their own. And yeah, it seemed like a pretty easy choice.

Kara: And I loved we did a VIP day and I was like, “You might have heard this on the podcast.” You’re like, “I’ve never listened to your podcast. I don’t know what you, I don’t know what you say on there.” Megan, I’m curious, especially since you are a therapist, like what your thought is about being a therapist who works with coaches? Because I’ve had some amazing clients who are therapists and work with coaches, but I’m sure that for a lot of therapists, they feel weird about that or it seems strange to them. So I’m just curious what your perspective is on that. Not even just working with me, like all the coaches you’ve worked with.

Megan: You’re the second coach I’ve worked with that was a lawyer first and then a coach. So you’re the second, like coach-coach. And then I worked with a lot of therapists who do business coaching for other therapists. And because I started that so early, like as soon as I got licensed and wanted to start my practice, I started investing in coaching. So I don’t see the conflict. I think that therapy has been so helpful in my life, receiving therapy has been so helpful in my life and like trauma healing and a lot of the being in touch with my emotions and like there’s deeper work that I’ve done, but the ability for a coach to be able to lead you in mindset and kind of get there faster.

Like as therapists, we’re always weighing like all the details and is this the very best route to go and stuff because it can feel like a attachment relationship. And with a coach, you’re creating a safe space for us, but there’s also the room to be like, “I don’t know about that. Let’s challenge that a little bit quicker than maybe a therapist does.” And I’ve always seen the benefit of that.

Kara: That’s a really interesting way of thinking about it that I haven’t heard before, that like attachment relationship versus like a safe space, but not…

Megan: Yeah, you’re not my, you’re not my mom.

Kara: Right, we’re not repairing the relationship by recreating it in the way that like a therapist might do that’s not, right. That’s so interesting. So I’m curious, you both came in for business coaching and we’ve certainly talked about your businesses, and especially Cecilie, we’ve done a lot of work on it. But I’m going to guess that if I asked like what was the biggest thing you got out of the experience, it was not actually like a business result. So I would love to hear from both of you like what you think was the biggest thing you got out of the experience of being in the mastermind?

Cecilie: So, I would say I definitely came in to work on my business. I was absolutely focused on that. And I think during the very first day of the kickoff of the first mastermind we did together because I’ve done a few by now, you correctly identified that I had all of my self-worth tied up in my business performance and that it might be worth just looking at that first. And so I actually, I ended up throwing my goal out the window and just spending six months building a much stronger relationship with myself. And I got a lot of things out of it, a lot of bonus results as well, but if I had to pick one, I’d say that was something I was not expecting and that has truly changed my life.

Kara: And what was your relationship with yourself like before versus what is it like now?

Cecilie: Oh, I don’t think this is unusual, right? But I think I was very attached to the idea of having something outside of myself validate my value and my worth, right? And for some people, it’s a partner. For some people, it’s a job. And I’m sure I’ve had both of those in the past. And for me, at that point in time, it was the financial performance of my business. And so, I don’t know, it’s like having a racehorse and you just kind of keep whipping it when it’s not performing, right? And like yelling at it. I mean, you wouldn’t do that. I wasn’t doing that literally, but inside my head.

Kara: You were inside your head. Yeah. You were yelling inside your head for sure.

Cecilie: I definitely was. I thought I was a total failure, failing at life. And I was just making myself more and more miserable. And it was shockingly not creating the results that I was looking for.

Kara: And what is different now?

Cecilie: So I still have freak-outs about my business as you very well know.

Kara: I don’t think that ever goes away. I have freak-outs about my business too.

Cecilie: But it never gets anywhere close to my sense of self. Like it doesn’t raise any questions about whether I’m a good person or my capability, my worth, my intelligence. Those are separate things. And that’s been kind of wild.

Kara: It’s really a different, yeah, it’s a very different way to live.

Cecilie: I’m 42, right? Like, you know what? I’ve lived a long time the other way.

Kara: Yeah, so good. What about you, Megan?

Megan: My biggest, so the question again, it’s our biggest takeaway.

Kara: Well, yeah, what it, what was the biggest thing that came out? Like you came in thinking, “Oh, I want business coaching,” or like defensive business coaching. Like how do I make sure nothing happens to my business?” Which also, of course, no coach, like that’s not a thing a person can do. What did you end up getting out of it?

Megan: So the timing on this was kind of wild. Like I’m grateful for it, but I didn’t know when I signed up that I was going to be getting a diagnosis for Autism like two weeks before we had our first mastermind meeting. My daughter had recently got diagnosed and I started thinking, I don’t know, maybe I’m Autistic and I had a recent diagnosis. And it was all very fresh. Like anyone who’s had a later in life diagnosis knows that there’s kind of like some shock and then like questioning and then really kind of refiguring ourselves out. And so that was happening for me right when the mastermind started. And I had landed in a group that was so neurodivergent affirming, again, not planning.

Kara: We call it the “find out you’re neurodivergent when you didn’t know mastermind” because it’s so common.

Megan: So it was like the diagnosis was one of the best gifts, but also the timing where I was in this mastermind during that was such a great gift because I ended up really looking at all my needs that had gone unmet for a long time that led to more anxiety, more burnout, and relooking at what I needed and readjusting my life.

Kara: I feel like that’s so, whatever the movement is behind the scenes that keeps drawing neurodivergent people to the mastermind. There are neurotypical people in the mastermind, but I almost feel like it’s the minority. But I think that the thing that’s consistent is so many women, even if you’re not neurodivergent, women are just socialized to not take care of their own needs, right? To just like push through and ignore and be in constant burnout and there’s so much deprogramming that has to happen to get a woman to even like acknowledge that she has needs and not immediately dismiss them as like selfish or lazy or you shouldn’t need that. She should be able to just basically be like a robot who can do all of her work and take care of everyone and go 24/7.

I feel like so much coaching for high-achieving women turns out to be some version of like, “Okay, but what if you had a human body and it needed different things or it couldn’t perform perfectly?” That like that racehorse analysis is so accurate because it’s like we’re expecting our bodies to sort of perform on command in this way that’s not realistic and not necessary, right? Like your business still works even though you were not putting yourself in burnout.

Megan: And I think what I really appreciate of this space that you created and the coaching that you gave me is that even though I came in like, I’ve done a lot of work on what my needs are, right? I know that as women that we have all these shoulds in our head and like that our identity really affects this. But like, on peeling it, I was still like, that’s a need that’s okay, and that’s a need that isn’t okay. And going through that every time I had a need. And I think that the coaching that you helped with really, if it’s a need, listen to it, because I’m not going to survive over the long haul if I don’t.

Kara: Yeah, and I feel like you guys were almost in different places of the entrepreneurial journey. Sort of Cecilie was like had success but was driving herself in this really self-critical, mean way where like the only thing that matters is how much money she made. And so that journey is like, okay, but like the whole point of that supposedly is to feel good in your life and you’re never going to feel good with it. And then you were like one or two stages down the road of like, “Well, I did hit those goals, but now I’m not allowed to enjoy it. Now I have all of these like reasons that I can’t.”  Because I feel like we also did a lot of coaching with you on like, what if you only want to work X amount per week? Actually allowing yourself to have the lifestyle that you worked so hard to create.

I feel like you guys are sort of archetypes of like different stages of that process where we like drive ourselves so hard thinking that we’ll feel good about ourselves when we get to a certain point, which of course is not how it works. And then even if we have done some of that work and we’re not being mean to ourselves anymore, but then we get to where we’re trying to go, but then we still have all this socialization like that it’s not okay to work less or take time off or like do all the things that we’re supposedly, I mean, especially as entrepreneurs. I had to go through this coaching too. Like I went through so much trouble to not have a 9-to-5 job and now I’m like, “Well, if I’m not working exactly 9 to 5, then that’s bad, something’s wrong, my employees are going to judge me, whatever.”

Cecilie: I remember one of the things you told me was if you had a really valuable racehorse that had been winning lots of races and it got injured, right? Or something happened and it couldn’t run as fast, would you keep whipping it or would you actually take care of it and look at what was happening and like give it a break and be nice to it? And I was like, who’s the racehorse?

Kara: I use that coaching I gave you about you’re the talent all the time. Like when I like, whatever, like book myself a night out or something, I’m like, “Got to take care of the talent. The talent needs to be well-rested.” So, both of you, as I said earlier, like jumped in never having worked with me before to a high-ticket program or a high-end program. I’m curious what your hesitations were, if any, before you made that decision and how you feel about them now.

Megan: I think for me, I was nervous about just not knowing your model. I knew that there were people in the group who had worked with you in other ways. And even in like the first mastermind day and in person, and people were already doing thought work before we started, like working through some things. And I was like, “I don’t know Kara’s model. I don’t know the self-coaching stuff.” And that didn’t actually ultimately affect my experience, I don’t think. You meet us where we are and you’re not just taking us through the model, you’re actively finding our blocks and stuff. So it worked out.

Cecilie: I had such a hesitation about the group element of it. And if we’re being honest, which we should be, I only signed up because it was the only way to work with you directly at the time. I was like, “Okay, I’m just going to do this. I’m just going to ignore the whole group piece.” And boy, was I wrong about the value of that.

Kara: Yeah, can you say more about that? Like, why did you feel like you didn’t like groups and how was this different?

Cecilie: I mean, to be honest, I’ve always felt this way a little bit even back to sort of school and university. I just always had this experience of it being complicated and people not lifting their weight and maybe it’s the neurodivergence as well. But like I just always struggled a bit with it. And I even remember coming into it, there’s a Slack element to the mastermind, right, where we talk to each other and support each other and ask questions or get direct coaching from you. And I remember saying, “I just don’t think I’m going to use that very much, so don’t expect to see me in there.”

Kara: I’m laughing because I think I coached Cecilie like 12 times last week in the Slack.

Cecilie: Yes, you loved that, didn’t you? This week was, but I think I’ve been one of the one of the people who’s probably been in there the most and I, I think it speaks to the kind of the level of the other people or the quality of the other humans. And there’s a real variety, right? There’s such a diversity in terms of backgrounds and what we’re working on and what we’ve come to achieve. But I just think going through that kind of growth with other people who are also doing it and who are willing to kind of leave it all on the field and doing that in a container that’s designed to challenge you but also hold you is quite a spectacular experience and I’ve just never, I didn’t know that existed.

Kara: Yeah, I think I believe really strongly the character or quality of a group is like set by the leader. You set the energy or tone that you want in a group. And you know, occasionally people don’t follow, you have to do something about that. But like, I think what I love about that group is like because I am so strong on like non-judgmental, open-mindedness, everything is subjective. There’s nothing you can’t say, that’s what everybody’s reflecting back.

But you guys are actually great examples of how you can have, Cecilie, you’re in there all the time, you’re really active. Megan was like, I called her like the stealth worker. She would just like come and get laser coach for 15 minutes. You wouldn’t hear from her for like four months. But then when she came back, everybody was like, “Yay, Megan’s here.” Like the group is very, I feel like there’s no, well that was my perception at least, like there’s no kind of like cliquishness or like, you know, we have people who’ve been in there since the beginning and we’ve new people. Most times we’re able to admit at least one or two new people. And it has that flexibility.

So you can be like in there a lot getting lots of coaching or you can be someone who like shows up in the Slack every three months and be like, “So this just in, and I’ve rearranged my entire schedule based on our coaching, and now I’m moving to Panama, and blah.” And then like comes back another few months, and that’s great too.

Cecilie: It’s very true. People are using it in lots of different ways and there’s room for all of it.

Kara: Is there anything else that you feel like people should know if they’re considering applying?

Megan: I think my biggest takeaway is that what you need help with is going to be addressed. So even if you’re like, I don’t know exactly, you know, like I feel like I’m in a transformation stage, or I feel like I’m stuck, and maybe my goal is this, or maybe, you know, you don’t need to have the perfect goal because Kara’s going to help you get down to it and pretty quickly.

Kara: Yeah, and even if you come in with thinking you know exactly what the goal is, it’s probably going to turn out it’s not that. Yeah, that’s a good point. I think some people come in with like very specific, like, “I want to create this kind of business because I want to disrupt this kind of industry and like that’s what I’m working on.” And some people are just like, “I don’t know. I just kind of hate everything and I’d like to not.” And like either end of those are fine.

Cecilie: I think vulnerability is pretty important. I think if you really want to get something out of it, I know one of our colleagues in the group said we sort of spent six months reading each other’s diaries. And it did feel a bit like that. And again, you don’t have to. There’s no obligation, but I do think that if you’re willing to really just open up and trust that people will actually cheer for you and support you and that you’re able to catch us when we really spin out, right, then that is quite valuable.

Kara: So now that you’ve been through the experience, what do you think has changed in the way you think about achieving a goal? So if you’re, you know, I know Cecilie, you have a goal you’re working on in your business, I’m sure Megan, you have goals. Like what’s different now in your mindset in terms of going after goals?

Megan: I know that I will get to where I need to be and that I can trust myself. And there’s just like, I can trust myself was the biggest thought that fit for me during the whole mastermind. It feels so true to me now. And so that I can relax a little bit. Like this year, as a therapy practice, you know, the whole therapy world is kind of feeling a shake up. I was telling Cecilie this earlier, in are our clients ready for help or not. There’s a lot going on in the world. There’s economic uncertainties. And so it’s just feels a little different than it usually does.

And usually I’d be panicking. I’d be like, “Kara, I need to get back in the mastermind, like I’m freaking out.” And I am, you know, I do have my freak-outs, but I also I’m like, I’ll get through this. Like I trust that I’ll find my way through this. And I trust that my brain and like where my heart is going to lead me where the practice needs to go. And so I’m able, I was telling my husband, I feel oddly like happy for a time that a lot of people in the business are feeling really stressed out.

Kara: And that’s so wild of like, you learn how to manage your mind then you’re like, is something off with me that I’m not like losing it all the time and I don’t hate everything. I’m not freaked out all the time. It is weird when you’re so used to living in hypervigilance. What about you, Cecilie?

Cecilie: I’m glad we established earlier on that I’m a couple of like stages behind you guys because I still lose it sometimes, but I definitely lose it a lot less.

Kara: I still lose it. I think we’re all saying we still lose it sometimes. It’s just whether you’re able to recover or you spend the next year panicking.

Cecilie: No, 100%. I could definitely see the difference last year. I think for me the main thing that’s changed in terms of thinking about goals is that it’s become a lot less about what I’m going to do and it’s become more about who I’ve become. And this version of me can keep starting over, keep creating different things, and it’s okay if they change or if they, I don’t love it, but it’s all right because I trust, it’s sort of back to the same thing, right? I trust myself to start over, to make changes, to do different things, to try different things, to be able to handle rejection and failure and that’s okay because it’s I’m still me and that feels pretty significant.

Kara: Yeah, it’s that resilience is what you’re both talking about. Like I feel like last year, Cecilie, when you would freak out, it would be like, “So never mind, I’m going to shut down this whole business.” And now it’s like that doesn’t come up as like that’s one of the options of things I’m going to do. It might be like, “Oh, I’m a little freaked out about this specific offer or this specific contract or whatever.” But there’s not that kind of like, “Oh, I can’t trust myself. I have to abandon this project and go do, you know, go back to sort of what my brain perceives as safer, which is…

Cecilie: Not at all. And we had this conversation, I think, and I can’t remember the exact thing you said, but effectively, whatever you do is going to be hard. At least you get to choose your hard and remind yourself that this is what you’ve picked and it’s not harder or easier, it just is, it’s life.

Kara: Oh, and I think that’s the beauty of a group also is you’re like, there’s always someone in the group who has the opposite situation of yours and also needs coaching. So it helps you with the lie that your brain is just like, yeah, but if I just had this different circumstance. If I just was married or I just was divorced, if I just was an employee or I was just an entrepreneur, and it’s like, “Nope, everybody’s got brain drama. You have to learn to manage it for yourself. Just changing the circumstance will not solve it for you.”

So, I’d love to close by just hearing what is a goal you’re working on now that you’re excited about. It doesn’t have to be business-related, thought work, whatever. Just what’s something you’re going after that you’re excited about going after.

Cecilie: I actually have a lot of things, but I think the main thing for me right now is enjoying my life despite the uncertainty. So, I’ve made a lot of changes to my business. I’m still trying to grow it. There’s obviously a lot of things going on in the world and my brain loves to tell me that it’s all going to go wrong. And practicing this idea that it actually, to an extent, of course, at some point it matters, but it’s okay. Like there’s so much in my life that I can enjoy regardless of what’s going on around me or with my business or with my clients or with the world. And just coming back to my friends, my loved ones, the beautiful trees in the park, trying to fill my life with more joy and happiness at kind of a very fundamental level and seeing just how much of that I can bring in while dealing with all the other stuff.

Kara: I love that. It’s almost actually like, we talk sometimes about thinking about yourself in the role of CEO when you’re making decisions. And that’s almost like there’s something valuable in just thinking like, “Well, right now my job is being the CEO of my own business. That could change in the future if I decide to do something differently, but that’s not my life, that’s not my identity. That’s what my current job is right now.” In the same way that you wouldn’t necessarily make it your life or identity if you worked in a corporation.

Cecilie: And I think there’s something about growing first because I work with so many senior leaders and they’re frantically running around trying to solve every problem and as we well know, being a leader or being an entrepreneur is just solving a string of problems, right? You solve one, you get three new ones, and that’s just the status quo. And so I think really trying to practice this being able to just not get caught up in it too much is a good thing to focus on for me and probably for my clients. And I’m slightly laughing because you’ve had to coach me a lot on this and I’m sure you will going forward as well.

Kara: But that’s, I think that’s part of actually, like our brains can be too good at it. We get very, entrepreneurs are good at solving problems, we get dopamine from doing that. That’s what being an entrepreneur is, and then it’s like hard to turn, you have to learn how to turn that off and be like, I can just enjoy the sunset, even though the sand is maybe a little itchy or I’m a little, whatever there are like problems here I could solve, but I’m not going to. I’m going to just like be in my body and enjoy it. I think that’s a skill that entrepreneurs have to practice. What about you, Megan? Anything you want to share that you’re working on?

Megan: Yeah, I think, it took me a second to figure it out, but what comes to mind is the goal of being open to experimentation because I’m seeing it both in my personal life and my business, but I’ll use business as the example. Because this one sales funnel that I created 10 years ago or whatever got me to where the business is now, I’ve been like, “I got to continue doing this because I know this works and I just got to do this perfectly forever.” But the world changes around me. And so I’ve been scared to experiment and like collaborate creatively with vendors. Like I’ve just been nervous like which way am I going to go. And so this year I’m really just open to kind of getting in touch with where I was in the beginning of the business, which was I didn’t know what was going to work. And so let’s try different things. And if I invest in something and it doesn’t work, I still learn. I’m really seeing that play out right now.

Kara: It’s such an important mindset and it is like something I always have to go back to and remind myself of also, like when I started, I had no idea what would work and I tried like 15 different things. And like, I see so many people starting out who are like, “But what’s the right thing to do? I got to know the right thing to do.” And I’m like, “If I totaled up the amount of money I spent on things that didn’t work, like, I’m sure it is six figures. But that’s part of making 28 million, right? Like it’s like that’s just the cost of doing business and we have to normalize it.” Yeah, so good. But as you get along, right, you think, “I know what I’m doing.” And then it’s hard to go back to being like, “Actually, let’s pretend I don’t know what I’m doing. What would happen?”

I’m often coaching women out of saying, “I don’t know what I’m doing,” because there’s a version of saying that is like you being like, “Well, I don’t know, I’m just a poor dummy. I don’t know what I’m doing.” Like that’s different than like, I don’t know, meaning like, “I got to run some experiments and get some data that I then trust myself to analyze and make decisions based on.”

Megan: Yeah, feel the trusting myself in the unknown is really empowering. I feel good about it instead of super, super anxious and frozen like I think I was when I came into the mastermind.

Kara: So good. Thank you for joining us, my friends. It’s always a pleasure to talk with you all.

Cecilie: Thank you for having us.

Megan: Yes, thank you.